Best Layouts
Zitat von Craig am Februar 16, 2021, 11:02 pm UhrI'd love to see your best layouts, and maybe their win/loss record. I'd like for us to ultimately find the best layouts possible.
I'd love to see your best layouts, and maybe their win/loss record. I'd like for us to ultimately find the best layouts possible.
Zitat von Ms_Riley_Guprz am Februar 23, 2021, 4:12 pm UhrI've studied layouts quite a bit, with my current bests performing 235/279 = 84.2%, 534/680 = 78.5%, 359/456=78.7%. However, a better statistic of their strength is their average length of game when it loses. The first layout is averaging just under 30 turns (29.59), which is the highest I've seen yet.
Naturally, I don't want to share them here, but some basic principles apply:
1. Place at least one or two ships adjacent to each other. If I can guess (and based on winrate, I'm usually right) that none of your ships are adjacent to each other, then finding your ships is incredibly easier. e.g. a battleship that normally takes up 5 squares can now be assumed to take up 21(!) squares, because I can ignore all the adjacent cells.
2. Players with high winrates are usually that way because of some trick in their layout, such as putting their patrol boat in a really sneaky spot. Usually this is adjacent to their battleship, carrier, or submarine. 89% of my high rated opponents had their patrol boat corner to another ship, although the newer meta is to place the patrol boat isolated from other ships. The more you play, the better feel you get for the winrate of various common tricks.
3. Submarines and carriers are generally vertical, while the remaining ships are generally horizontal.
4. The highest density cells are in rows 2-3,8-9 and columns b-c,h-i, particularly near the center of each row/column.
5. Patrol boats tend to be in a "window pattern" on the board. What I mean is they tend to be in rows 1-2,5-6,9-10 and columns a-b,e-f,i-j, or in other words they tend not to be in the middle of each of the four quadrants. The area just south of the center is the most common.
I've studied layouts quite a bit, with my current bests performing 235/279 = 84.2%, 534/680 = 78.5%, 359/456=78.7%. However, a better statistic of their strength is their average length of game when it loses. The first layout is averaging just under 30 turns (29.59), which is the highest I've seen yet.
Naturally, I don't want to share them here, but some basic principles apply:
1. Place at least one or two ships adjacent to each other. If I can guess (and based on winrate, I'm usually right) that none of your ships are adjacent to each other, then finding your ships is incredibly easier. e.g. a battleship that normally takes up 5 squares can now be assumed to take up 21(!) squares, because I can ignore all the adjacent cells.
2. Players with high winrates are usually that way because of some trick in their layout, such as putting their patrol boat in a really sneaky spot. Usually this is adjacent to their battleship, carrier, or submarine. 89% of my high rated opponents had their patrol boat corner to another ship, although the newer meta is to place the patrol boat isolated from other ships. The more you play, the better feel you get for the winrate of various common tricks.
3. Submarines and carriers are generally vertical, while the remaining ships are generally horizontal.
4. The highest density cells are in rows 2-3,8-9 and columns b-c,h-i, particularly near the center of each row/column.
5. Patrol boats tend to be in a "window pattern" on the board. What I mean is they tend to be in rows 1-2,5-6,9-10 and columns a-b,e-f,i-j, or in other words they tend not to be in the middle of each of the four quadrants. The area just south of the center is the most common.
Zitat von Ms_Riley_Guprz am Mai 15, 2021, 2:43 pm UhrI collect the data myself in several Excel files. There's a lot of information you can extract from just the data they give you, but I like to keep even more detailed records.
I collect the data myself in several Excel files. There's a lot of information you can extract from just the data they give you, but I like to keep even more detailed records.
Zitat von Duncan am Mai 28, 2021, 6:15 pm UhrThis is great - thanks for sharing! I've done my own abbreviated stats research, on a bout 200 games, which has helped my win rate as I've found the most likely spots for the patrol boat. I haven't really figured out the best layout yet!
This is great - thanks for sharing! I've done my own abbreviated stats research, on a bout 200 games, which has helped my win rate as I've found the most likely spots for the patrol boat. I haven't really figured out the best layout yet!
Zitat von knut am Dezember 27, 2021, 12:19 am UhrThere is not just one good strategy for a layout. For me it depends on the opponent which layout I choose. For players with average statistics usually the mentioned trick-layouts work pretty well. Very experienced players are better in recognizing those strategies and there I choose a more luck based strategy which have almost no strategy in the layout and the opponent can more or less only guess and hopefully give me enough time to find the opponent's ships early enough.
I havent found a good strategy for very bad players, as they don't really follow a particular stategy and this way often circumvent trick layouts.
There is not just one good strategy for a layout. For me it depends on the opponent which layout I choose. For players with average statistics usually the mentioned trick-layouts work pretty well. Very experienced players are better in recognizing those strategies and there I choose a more luck based strategy which have almost no strategy in the layout and the opponent can more or less only guess and hopefully give me enough time to find the opponent's ships early enough.
I havent found a good strategy for very bad players, as they don't really follow a particular stategy and this way often circumvent trick layouts.
Zitat von dw817 am April 14, 2022, 7:05 pm UhrHi, Craig:
I don't know if there is a particular pattern that is favored. Some opponents will look for your ships on the corners, some will look in the middle, some even favor the edges. What you want to be is NOT consistent.
For instance, I place one on the corner that does not actually touch the exact corner, I place one on the edge that does not actually touch the edge, and the others around each other, making sure they are not evenly spaced but have some clustered and some wide gaps between them.
Consider what it is your opponent is thinking and try to get around that. And in many cases this is impossible as even a totally random shot from your opponent will likely hit one of your ships as the board of 10x10 is rather small for all of them.
The one key ship you need to hide well is your PT boat. Once that is shot the others are much easier to find. See to it that even if you lose a game that it is the 1x2 PT boat which is found and destroyed last.
. . .
Hallo Craig:
Ich weiß nicht, ob es ein bestimmtes Muster gibt, das bevorzugt wird. Einige Gegner werden Ihre Schiffe an den Ecken suchen, einige werden in der Mitte suchen, einige bevorzugen sogar die Kanten. Was du sein willst, ist NICHT konsistent.
Zum Beispiel platziere ich eine an der Ecke, die nicht wirklich die genaue Ecke berührt, ich platziere eine an der Kante, die die Kante nicht wirklich berührt, und die anderen umeinander herum, wobei ich darauf achte, dass sie nicht gleichmäßig beabstandet sind, sondern einige gruppieren und einige große Lücken zwischen ihnen.
Überlegen Sie, was Ihr Gegner denkt, und versuchen Sie, das zu umgehen. Und in vielen Fällen ist dies unmöglich, da selbst ein völlig zufälliger Schuss Ihres Gegners wahrscheinlich eines Ihrer Schiffe treffen wird, da das Spielfeld von 10x10 für alle ziemlich klein ist.
Das einzige Schlüsselschiff, das Sie gut verstecken müssen, ist Ihr PT-Boot. Sobald das geschossen ist, sind die anderen viel einfacher zu finden. Sorgen Sie dafür, dass, selbst wenn Sie ein Spiel verlieren, das 1x2-PT-Boot zuletzt gefunden und zerstört wird.
Hi, Craig:
I don't know if there is a particular pattern that is favored. Some opponents will look for your ships on the corners, some will look in the middle, some even favor the edges. What you want to be is NOT consistent.
For instance, I place one on the corner that does not actually touch the exact corner, I place one on the edge that does not actually touch the edge, and the others around each other, making sure they are not evenly spaced but have some clustered and some wide gaps between them.
Consider what it is your opponent is thinking and try to get around that. And in many cases this is impossible as even a totally random shot from your opponent will likely hit one of your ships as the board of 10x10 is rather small for all of them.
The one key ship you need to hide well is your PT boat. Once that is shot the others are much easier to find. See to it that even if you lose a game that it is the 1x2 PT boat which is found and destroyed last.
. . .
Hallo Craig:
Ich weiß nicht, ob es ein bestimmtes Muster gibt, das bevorzugt wird. Einige Gegner werden Ihre Schiffe an den Ecken suchen, einige werden in der Mitte suchen, einige bevorzugen sogar die Kanten. Was du sein willst, ist NICHT konsistent.
Zum Beispiel platziere ich eine an der Ecke, die nicht wirklich die genaue Ecke berührt, ich platziere eine an der Kante, die die Kante nicht wirklich berührt, und die anderen umeinander herum, wobei ich darauf achte, dass sie nicht gleichmäßig beabstandet sind, sondern einige gruppieren und einige große Lücken zwischen ihnen.
Überlegen Sie, was Ihr Gegner denkt, und versuchen Sie, das zu umgehen. Und in vielen Fällen ist dies unmöglich, da selbst ein völlig zufälliger Schuss Ihres Gegners wahrscheinlich eines Ihrer Schiffe treffen wird, da das Spielfeld von 10x10 für alle ziemlich klein ist.
Das einzige Schlüsselschiff, das Sie gut verstecken müssen, ist Ihr PT-Boot. Sobald das geschossen ist, sind die anderen viel einfacher zu finden. Sorgen Sie dafür, dass, selbst wenn Sie ein Spiel verlieren, das 1x2-PT-Boot zuletzt gefunden und zerstört wird.
Zitat von tombos21 am Mai 3, 2022, 10:49 am UhrDon't get so caught up in defence that you forget about offense! I'm at 375 wins 182 losses using mostly random boards. I spent all my time maximizing my firing pattern and learning combinatorics.
That said, here's a fun one you can try. It scored reasonably well. The three ships on the left form this confusing clump that tends to generate a lot of misfires.
Don't get so caught up in defence that you forget about offense! I'm at 375 wins 182 losses using mostly random boards. I spent all my time maximizing my firing pattern and learning combinatorics.
That said, here's a fun one you can try. It scored reasonably well. The three ships on the left form this confusing clump that tends to generate a lot of misfires.
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Zitat von Ms_Riley_Guprz am Mai 3, 2022, 5:24 pm UhrThe most common areas for ships are the center of the b,c & h,i files, and the 2,3 & 8,9 ranks. Your patrol boat on I5,I6 might be an easy target. I5 is usually my first shot (followed by B7). The Patrol Boat may be better positioned on D1,D2 or G1,H1 for example.
The most common areas for ships are the center of the b,c & h,i files, and the 2,3 & 8,9 ranks. Your patrol boat on I5,I6 might be an easy target. I5 is usually my first shot (followed by B7). The Patrol Boat may be better positioned on D1,D2 or G1,H1 for example.
Zitat von Pryanickman am Mai 11, 2022, 1:38 pm UhrHello.
How to make own layout invisible for opponent when match is over and no difference you won or lose?
I saw 2 times a day ago "Top secret" and layout is under thr vinous colour board.
Thank you.
Hello.
How to make own layout invisible for opponent when match is over and no difference you won or lose?
I saw 2 times a day ago "Top secret" and layout is under thr vinous colour board.
Thank you.
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